Black Spring

Late afternoon: "Europe is with us"

I telephoned President Iliescu and appealed to him to come to Tirgu Mures at once. I said the situation was very dangerous and ethnic clashes could occur. I stressed that the Romanian mob violence that caused the grave injury to Amdrás Sütö had not improved the reputation of our country, and that it would be advisable to avoid a repetition of such incidents.

Iliescu answered that while the atmosphere was so tense he would not come. He would come in two or tree days when the situation had calmed down. Ilieseu never did come.

He also said that he was sending the deputy Defence and Interior Ministers and that they would take the appropriate measures. These gentlemen only appeared in public on the 21st, after the killings.

It wasn't only me asking Iliescu to intervene. The Romanian Greek Catholic Bishop (later Cardinal) Alexandru Todea called on the President as early as March 19 to do something to stop ethnic clashes. Iliescu refused then too, saying he would take steps only "at the very end".

I also talked on the phone to Dr Pál Kikeli, one of the vice-presidents of the Mures County branch of the RMDSZ. He told me that he and another vice-president, István Ká1i Király, had just decided to go into hiding together. He gave me a telephone number, but with a bugged telephone it was not certain that they wouldn't be found if a search was really on for them. He recommended that I should remind the people of the importance of peace and unity. But I already had my routine worked out here, for I had delivered three speeches earlier that day at Odorheiul Secuiesc. But he added something I had not thought of apropos this particular Hungarian crowd gathered in the town centre: I should send the people home because of the danger of provocation.

In the Romanian variants of my speech delivered so the Vatra crowd would also understand me, I also called on people to disperse, but in vain. (I shall return to this.) After my telephone calls, I had to talk to the demonstrators.

My Hungarian-language and Romanian-language speeches - which were video- recorded - were as follows:

Kincses (in Hungarian): "Dear people of Tirgu Mures! It is a very great responsibility to speak on these two days. Yesterday, when I stood here (and was forced to resign), other people expected me to say something entirely different to what I have to say here today. My opinion is that here and now, conciliation is the only possible road

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to follow. We only have a future if we have trust in each other, if we do not constantly look on one-another with suspicion, if we do not let ourselves be misled by the extremists...

"In my opinion, yesterday's demonstration was a typical case of what terrible pain can be caused by a sick idea born in the minds of some irresponsible extremists, of what a Fascistic climate of pogrom it can call forth. We shall of course demand that the organisers of yesterday's demonstration be put before the courts and punished.

But no generalisations are permissible: it has to be established exactly who was at fault, and to what extent. And the punishments must be tailored to the individuals.

Let us not generalise. This is my request to the people of Tirgu Mures. I am very well aware that a great many Romanians of Tirgu Mures are stunned and shocked by the events of yesterday, We have to join forces with these true democrats in order to isolate those with sick minds. Those latter types we don't need. It is anyway very important that we behave in a civilised manner in order not to lose the sympathy and understanding we won through our self-restraint yesterday, when it was so difficult not to go out into the streets. We need the support of Romanian and European democratic public opinion, otherwise we cannot achieve the equal rights that are due to us and to every minority."

9/27/97

The crowd: "Europe is with us, Europe is with us!"

Kincscs: "I would like to stress that we are not demanding privileges. We don't seek equal rights at the expense of somebody else! We demand only those rights which have already been formulated in the Declaration of Alba Iulia in 1918 [the pact where Romanians outlined minority rights for Hungarians after the detatchment of Transylvania from Hungary] and which were then included in the Versailles Settlement, also rights guaranteed in the Helsinki Final Act of 1975, in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and in all international agreements which Romania has signed in the past 40 years."

The crowd: "We demand our rights!" .

Kincses (in Romanian): "Dear fellow citizens! I said yesterday too that I was in favour of unity. (...) Today the healthy body of Tirgu Mures rejects the few sick cells which have ruined our coexistence. (... ) We shall be able to restore the wonderful unity which characterised us during the December revolution, when our sons sacrificed their lives together here, in the Martyrs' Square. (...) We must be careful that in the local press no material should be published of the sort which appeared, for instance, in Los Angeles, which gives rise to altercations here, because it awakens in the Romanians the suspicion that the Hungarians want Transylvania. It is a shame that such a thing could have happened in the local press, especially if we take into account that a gross forgery is involved. (... ) We shall soon read out aloud the draft programme of the RMDSZ, and I ask everybody to go home afterwards." (My comment: in the end, I did not receive this draft from Kikeli.)

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The crowd: (in Romanian) "'We shall not leave!" (in Hungarian) "Now or never! We shall wait!

Mercifully, our earlier requests for people to go home had not been met. The Hungarian demonstrators feared that if they dispersed the Romanian crowds would settle matters with the Hungarian leaders who were in the town hall, and would beat up or murder every Hungarian they caught. Indeed, it is obvious that if the demonstrating Hungarian crowd had not taken up the fight with the invaders, the balance would have been much worse, and then we would have had to count with many more than the three Hungarian dead. It is incontestable that the opinion of the crowd was correct; they knew better what had to be done than we did. Arrangements were made for the potential fight. Women and children were told to leave the demonstration. The men were told to stay together in tight formation and to reinforce their flank facing the Grand Hotel.

Nicolae Juncu (in Romanian): "I call on everybody those here in the square. the ones standing in front of the Grand Hotel and those too who are standing in front of the Mayor's Office - to have patience. We shall try to solve the situation."

After I had finished my speech I was warned that information had been received by the Mures County leaders of the Provisional Council of National Unity that armed Romanian peasants from the Reghin region were again assembling. I therefore rang Interior Minister, General Mihai Chitac, to demand that the two demonstrating camps be separated by adequate forces, and that a repetition of the invasion of armed Romanian peasants from the Gurghiu valley and the Reghin region should be prevented. I stressed that the vandalism of the 19th had done great damage to the international reputation of Romania, and a repetition must be avoided.

Interior Minister Chitac reassured me that he had already issued orders to Colonel Gambrea, the police commander of Mures County, to separate the two camps with adequate forces, and to prevent the possible invasion of Tirgu Mures by outside groups.

The "adequate" force was a cordon of about 80 policemen to control 20-22,000 people. This cordon dissolved when the Romanian attack came. It had been set up at approimately at 13:30 by General Scrieciu at the demand of the RMDSZ. With the benefit of hindsight, it can be said that it would also have been

useful to supplement this official protection with some more comprehensive self-defence measures of our own.

Following my talk with Interior Minister Chitac, I at once telephoned County Police Commander Gambrea. He assured me he had taken measures to close down the Gurghiu valley so that the Romanian peasants would not be able to leave and come to Tirgu Mures. The town, he said, "cannot be penetrated."

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After this I rang Károly Király in Bucharest. He said he would do everything possible and talk to all competent persons. In order to avoid further harm, he warned that we should also think of organising our own self-defence.

I spoke to Defence Minister Stanculescu, who told me that a deputy minister was coming to Tirgu Mures, to take appropriate measures. But the Defence Minister was unwilling to order the immediate intervention of the military.

Next on the phone, I appealed to General Constantin Cojocaru, the Mures County military commander, for the army to intervene and prevent clashes between the ethnic groups. Cojocaru first said that he did not have sufficient forces available. After the Romanian attack had started, and after a second telephone call, he announced that he had taken measures for the military to intervene.

After all these telephone conversations, I was warned that the Romanian demonstrators were getting more and more aggressive and that it was to be feared that the Hungarians would lose their patience. I therefore told County First Vice-President Srieciu that we should try to convince the crowd - he the Romanians, and I the Hungarians that there was no place for violence.

A few minutes before 17:00, I addressed the crowd (in Hungarian): "Unfortunately it seems that there are also people who do not like peaceful demonstrations and are trying to disturb things. I ask you not to forget that the scenario is old one. They again want to provoke us, and want to try to prove that we are destabilising the country because we want to detach Transylvania. This would then, of course, serve as an excellent argument for the introduction of a military dictatorship...

"We ask nothing but equal rights: an Hungarian section in the Medical University, a Bolyai School. This has nothing to do with territorial demands.... These are base manipulations to which we have fallen victims so many times, and now they are trying to manipulate public opinion again. On this point, Bucharest Television is unfortunately very much at fault, having broadcast a number of lies... "

Ioan Scrieciu (in Romanian): "I ask everybody to keep calm. Do not respond to provocation. I call on the Romanians standing in front of the Grand Hotel to leave. No party should let itself be provoked because it is not right that we are behaving in this way. I beg you to leave the square in front of the Grand Hotel and to go home.

"People around the statue should also go home." (He was referring to the statue of Avram Iancu, where the Romanians had started to assemble a few hours before.)

To calm down the crowd, the Hungarian theatre director András Hunyadi an- nounced that the Hungarian actress Kinga Illyes would recite poems to them.

Kinga Illyés: "I bring you, dear friends, the words of poets. The words of poets, who never took recourse to violence. They wrote and spoke only in the name of pure humanism, the soul, and justice."

Beautiful poems addressed to ugly times followed.

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Early evening. "They have arrived, they're here"

I returned to my office and received a telephone message that armed Romanian peasants, having been made drunk, were on their way from Reghin. In this situation there were two alternatives: either everybody goes home. or everybody stays. There@ fore I again went before the crowd and said the following:

"In Bucharest, a parliamentary session is beginning. This is the meeting of the National Bureau of the Council of Unity which is to deal with the situation in Tirgu Mures, and of the national minorities generally. It is, of course, impossible to know how long this meeting will last. Probably it will last a very long time, because the situation is extremely difficult and complicated. The question now is what to do? "

Shall we wait for the decision 'in Bucharest?

The answer of the demonstrators in front of the town hall: "We shall wait!"

Kincses: "Well, if this is the general opinion, then it is very important that everybody should stay in place and that the crowd should not disperse. And it should be very disciplined, because if only a few remain here, we can be subject to all kinds of attacks. This then is a collective duty, and everybody should stay here, and we should look after each other. This is the only way this can be managed."

The crowd: "Now or never! "

Kincses: "In that case, we also have to think of the fact that we may have to defend ourselves..."

I proposed that the following communique should be read on Tirgu Mures Radio: "Those who want to go home, should go home. Those who want to come, should come because they may be needed... "

We had to decide soon, because the Hungarian-language transmission of Tirgu Mures Radio lasted only until 20:00. But our tentative preparations to save ourselves were overtaken by events. Shortly after, at 18.00, the Romanian attack did indeed come.

This was how the moment was recorded by the person manning one video camera in the main square:

"Look, they have broken through. Jesus Christ, they have pushed out onto the square. With axes. They have gone crazy. I have never seen such a thing in my life. With pitchforks. Good God, he has fallen down. Where are the soldiers?"

One Hungarian journalist in the square prior to this moment describes noticing on the Romanian side a young woman, maybe 19 or 20, hoisted on someone's shoulders. She was always looking to the rear. He heard her shout: "They have arrived, they're here." The young woman jumped down and ran to the side, and suddenly the square was a sea of axes,

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By the time I got to the balcony from my office, I saw that the Hungarians had begun to fight back, and most of the Romanians had withdrawn to the Grand Hotel. I am told it is a mystery how the Hungarians ran only a certain distance before something made them stop, turn and confront the Romanians. Though at this point they were still without weapons and presumably used only their hands against the axes and pitchforks. From the town hall balcony, I tried to soothe the crowd with the following words:

"We have to end the struggle. Let us try it, perhaps we shall succeed. The soldiers are allegedly coming. In any case, we should not attack. We should not attack, only defend ourselves: Come back to the front of the town hall, to the centre! Come back, do not run!"

Parties of Hungarian workers and students started to arrive to supplement the original demonstrators who had been caught in the square by the first attack. I am told the workers were a model of team-work as they set down calmly to make Molotov Cocktails*. one loading, one carrying, one stacking.

I went back to my office and phoned everywhere, and General Cojocaru promised that finally the army would come. (An hour earlier, the Hungarian demonstrators had begun chanting in Romanian: Let the army come! And so often subsequently, I have asked myself: what would have happened if it had not been us who were trying to call in the army, but the other side?)

The Hungarians were now trying to arm themselves in order to return to the scene. They dismantled fences and benches - indeed, it was possible to know who was Hungarian because they held green staves.

They also raided building sites for weapons. In short they got hold of

anything that appeared suitable and returned to the front of the town hall. From there, they drove the Romanians back to the Grand Hotel.

Let me note that the Hungarians of Tirgu Mures wanted to avoid clashes to such an extent that this was the first time during the whole of this period under review that they had actively responded to a Romanian provocation or returned a Romanian attack. Further, the first dead and injured were all Hungarian, which shows (in addition to the video-records), who started the violence. This particular piece of information was suppressed by Vatra doctors.

The Hungarians built barricades in the streets leading to the main square so that when after a big delay - three armoured vehicles arrived, they got caught in the street to the right of the town hall and could not continue.

The Hungarians refused to let them through, saying they did not trust the army, After repeated requests of mine, they dismantled a barricade, and thus the three armoured vehicles were able to get to the corner of the square next to the Grand Hotel, closing down the square and the road leading to the town hall.

After the army's arrival, I spoke again:

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"The soldiers are here, they take their place. Nothing should be done to them. Everybody should now stay in place. I ask everybody to stay in place', nobody should pay attention to the military. Hungarians, remain in your places!"

But the arrival of the armoured vehicles emboldened the Romanians ("The army is with us"). They started to throw missiles at the Hungarians more and more agressively. Paving stones were delivered by a dump truck, gasolin by another truck. Molotov Cocktails were being produced, which they threw at the Hungarians. (This information was provided to me by witnesses, since I was in the town hall until the end,)

According to some witnesses, the Vatra people syphoned off fuel from the army vehicles too in order to make Molotov Cocktails.

After a successful missile barrage, the Romanians began to climb over the armoured vehicles and advanced again. During this time, according to other witnesses, at least one of the annoured vehicles drove over to the Romanian side, turned around, and then proceeded towards the Hungarian lines slowly, while the Romanian mob sheltered and followed behind it, throwing stones.

One Hungarian describes how he became aware of a curious sound, like a tin house collapsing. He looked up to see a big Romanian truck descending upon him. He leapt out of the way, at the same time reallsing that the sound was the noise of stones thrown by more alert Hungarians pounding the sides of the truck. The windscreen was smashed, the driver pressed on blindly, demolishing a lamp-post and a fountain before striking the steps of the Greek Catholic church. This truck struck and killed one of the Hungarians. The crash was forceful enough to kill one of the Romanian passengers. When the vehicle came to a halt, the other Romanians on board immediately jumped up and started throwing down iron bars. They had come to arm their compatriots, but this area had just been cleared by the Hungarians in one of their sweeps.

The square was full of broken staves and bottles and the clanking of armoured vehicles manoeuvering, belching smoke. One Hungarian witness recalls seeing three people on fire that night: one of them hit squarely on the back by a Molotov Cocktail.

The ambulances had approached from all directions, though they concentrated on retrieving the wounded the Hungarians from one end of the square and the Romanians from the other. Parties of Hungarians launched out into the Romanian lines and took prisoners. One captured Romanian was beaten severely by other Hungarians despite the appeals of his captors that he was a prisoner. He had to be put straight into one of the ambulances, his head a bloody mess.

Control over the square ebbed and flowed during this time, with the Hungarians facing the difficulty of confronting the Romanians sheltering behind the armoured vehicles. The Romanians began to advance again. Then, at about 20:00, small parties of young men began to arrive with silent steps behind the Hungarian lines'. They wore white so that they would identify each other, and they were well armed. The Hungarian Gypsies of Tirgu Mures had arrived.

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The Gypsies called out: Hungarians never fear! The Gypsies are here! The Hungarian crowd roared. Together, they attacked and forced the Romanians back behind the armoured vehicles. One of the Gypsy leaders told me: "Mr. Kincses, should we not come to help the Hungarians, when we are Hungarian Gypsies, and it hurts us if the Hungarians are being beaten! " He added: "Today you, tomorrow us ..."

After this, the Romanians only continued to throw things, but did not dare again to cross the line formed by the armoured vehicles. And many of the Romanian vehicles that had transported the mob to Tirgu Mures now began to burn.

At this point, I rang Colonel Gambrea, the police commander, and asked him how it was possible that he had not provided security for Tirgu Mures against the Romanian peasants. To which Gambrea answered in an off-hand manner: "What can I do if I don't have enough men available."

The truth about the behaviour of the police was told later, in an April transmission of the Panorama programme of Hungarian Television, by the physician Dr. Elöd Uri. He was then the Vice-President of the Reghin branch of the RMDSZ, though he has since resettled in Hungary, his life having been threatened by Vatra people. He reported that at the edge of Reghin, the buses and trucks carrying the peasant force were indeed held up, but only until approximately 12 vehicles had assembled. And then it was a police car that led them to Tirgu Mures!

I was repeatedly telephoned in these hours by Hungarian leaders in Covasna and Harghita counties, who asked how they could help us. They said several thousand people wanted to come and help Tirgu Mures. I said that such help was not needed, that the conflict should not be broadened. I proposed that instead they should bombard Iliescu, Stanculescu, Petre Roman, Chitac - the main Romanian leadership, in other words - with phone calls, insisting that these men finally take measures.

Late evening: "I know you, though we have never met"

I too several times rang President Iliescu and Defence Minister Stanculescu, who only kept promising help and mentioning the trip by the two vice-ministers as a solution. They said that as soon as they arrived in Tirgu Mures, the Vice-Ministers for Defense and the Interior would take the necessary steps. I do not know why, but the two gentlemen were visible in town only the next day (the 21st), but kept away from the events on the 20th.

Seeing that the clashes continued and nobody did anything to prevent the escalation of violence, I also rang Prime Minister Petre Roman and introduced myself to him. He said very curtly in Romanian.- "I know you, though we have never met, nor even spoken to each other on the phone." I immediately remembered the February threat by General Cojocaru (he then said that he would have me court-martialled and

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had already discussed it with the Prime Minister). I told Roman that the necessary and adequate military steps would be outlined to him by a reserve-major of the army. I then handed the phone to this reserve major, the Hungarian Géza Nagy, who sketched out what measures would put an end to the bloodshed, Petre Roman told Nagy to hand the receiver back to me and he told me that within an hour an infantry battalion would be in Tirgu Mures.

All this happened between 20.-30 and 21:00, when we had as yet been informed of only two dead and 100 injured.

After 75 minutes I again rang Roman, who told me the infantry had not arrived because it could not get through the barricades set up in the Hungarian villages. Finally parachutists arrived, and from Luna (a village between Ludus and Turda) an infantry formation. In this direction, by the way, there are no Hungarian concentrations on the road to Tirgu Mures. But what can a few peasants do against the army anyway?

Not that Hungarians outside the town weren't active. On the road from Hodac, where there are indeed Hungarian settlements, local people fought valiantly for hours to try to block or delay the transit of the convoys of Romanian peasants into Tirgu Mures. While Hungarians inside Tirgu Mures fought back against the mob, scenes of equal heroism were taking place without our knowledge on the roads through the villages of Singeorgiu de Mures, Ernei, Gornesti and Dumbravioara. Indeed, two of the Hungarian dead of that night fell on this road - crushed by Romanian trucks. I must stress that without the help of these Hungarian villagers, the Hungarians inside the town would have lost far more blood than they did,

At around 23:00, Hungarian Szekler people from the Niraj district arrived. And together with the Hungarians and the Gypsies of Tirgu Mures, they dispersed the Romanians who were still in the area behind the tanks, in the Square of the Martyrs, and drove them out of town.

Me main body of the infantry arrived in the main square only at 5:00 the next morning. They threw a defensive cordon around the Hungarian demonstrators who had stayed all night in the square. They had covered the distance of 50 kilometers in eight hours. Why did it take so long? When the military arrived, only Hungarians were left in the square.

During the second main counter-attack which finally dispersed the Romanians from the town centre, the Hungarians also took prisoners, whom they questioned during the night. The prisoners confessed that they had come because they were paid money, or because their village mayor forced them to come. They even said that the bells had been sounded in the Orthodox churches. They were usually drunk. But it is still a fact that they behaved very strangely, and that I cannot explain their behaviour by the influence of drink alone. Some recordings were made of these interrogations, and there were also written confessions,

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Given the emotionally-charged nature of the moment, these

interrogations were chaotic, contradictory and often self-defeating. But I shall record here some essential details from the video-recordings made with the Romanian prisoners (all in Romanian):

1 st voice: Why have you come here? Look at me when I am talking to you. What is your name?

2nd voice: Ilie Petra.

1 st voice: Where have you come from?

2nd voice: From Ibanesti.

I st voice: How did you travel here?

2nd voice: By bus.

lst voice: Who told you to come here? How did you know that you should come here?

2nd voice: I was on my way home from the factory...

I st voice: Where do you work?

2nd voice: In the Ierbus, in furniture plant No. 2.

1 st voice: How old are you?

2nd voice: Twenty-three.

lst voice: Well, who told you to come here,?

2nd voice: On my way home I was stopped at the bridge and told to come here.

I st voice: How many came from Ibanesti? In how many buses?

2nd voice: In three buses. Approximately 400.

I st voice: And why did you come here? What was the reason? Were you only being told to come...? They must have had some reason... well, what? Did you want to have a look at the town?

2nd voice: No, but...

I st voice: Well then? Did you want to defend Transylvania? Was that the reason? Was that you were told?

2nd voice: Yes, but...

lst voice: Of course, tell us in stages what you were told, why you should have to come here. First, to defend Transylvania, and then? Well, you must have been told something in the village before you came here.

2nd voice: I was in the factory.

lst voice: Still, after you left the factory, you must have been told something. You were told where you had to go and why. Did they not tell you?

2nd voice: I won't tell; if I tell, I will be killed.

1st voice: Tell us, we won't harm you. Continue.

2nd voice: The chairman. He had the church bell sounded.

1st voice: And how much money did you get? And how many gifts did you get?

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And drinks? You are saying that you know nobody who instigated this. What arms did you bring along'?

2nd voice: None.

Ist voice: So you came empty-handed. Then where did you get the clubs and the axes with which you fought? Aren't you telling? Or by what car you came? Every registration plate has been noted down. So are you sure that we want to take Transilvania away?

2nd voice: No.

1 st voice: Then why did you come? We have never asked for this. We have as many rights as you do. We are here too, and we want to stay here. Who said that we want to take Transylvania away? What shall we take it away with? By our hands? You well know that we do not want Transylvania, and you nevertheless turned against us. Why? Tell us, why?

3rd voice: Answer. I have a son who is as old as you are.

lst voice: Would you have the courage to tell infront of others too?

2nd voice: We were told that the Hungarians broke the shop windows and de- stroyed the shops.

lst voice: Listen, you came here in order to beat up the Hungarians, isn't it true? Who then broke up everything here? Did not you break the doors and windows of our headquarters? Confess that you came to beat Hungarians. You were here yesterday too, weren't you? Who brought you here yesterday?

2nd voice: The Mayor of Hodac.

I st voice: Are you certain that it was him? What is his name?

2nd voice: Ioan Brinzaru. He was there, and he got hold of the bus.

4th voice: What did you come for? I still don't understand.

Ist voice: You came to beat up the Hungarians, didn't you? Look and see how Transylvania looks in your eyes, How beautiful it looks. On account of your idiots. Can you see what it looks like? Don't you have a single Hungarian friend? Well. close your eyes and don't look either right or left, be ashamed. Do you know how many injured there are, that there is no room for them in the hospitals? More than 100. Quite a few from Hodac too. Can you see how beautiful Transylvania is now, this place that you want to defend from us.? You who beat up our people. We do not need Transylvania, we need friendship, do you understand? You don't need Transylvania either, you who also know how it was on December 22, when we together proclaimed brotherhood. We wanted brotherhood, do you understand? This is what you want to destroy now. Have we taken anything away from you? Do you know what we are asking for? Our rights provided for in the constitution. Why does a Hungarian school disturb you? 4th voice (a Romanian interrogator!): So you have many Hungarian friends, have you not? Or haven't you any? All right, boy, I am glad that you are from lbanesti. You

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see, I am from Suceava county, from Radauti. See, I am not from here, I have only been living here for seven years. I have only one question: Why did you come here to stir up trouble. Why, what for?

2nd voice: I have not done anything, I have only just got here.

4th voice: You have just got here? But why have you come here?

2nd voice: I heard that the Hungarians had plundered and smashed up the shops.

4th voice: Have you heard what happened here yesterday when you came in? Have you heard what your friends and brothers have done? Have you heard about the butchery which they arranged yesterday.? They attacked innocent unarmed people with sticks and axes. Have you heard about last night?

2nd voice: I have heard about it.

4th voices. You have heard about it. And then why did you nevertheless come here today? What were you lookin for? Did you again want to eradicate this nationality? Can't you feel that we have become ridiculous in front of the world?

Ist voice: Is this how you would treat the Hungarians? You did not bandage anybody there, you did not look after them. What would have happened if I had got into your hands like this?

4th voice: They would have killed you.

Ist voice: Tell me frankly what would you have done if a man with a broken skull had fallen in front of your feet?

2nd voice: I say that I would not have killed him.

I st voice: No. Would you have left him there?

4th voice: Listen, a cross- examination. If you people at Hodac had asked for some rights, and if Hungarians had gone to your village and hit you over the head, how would you have liked that? What would you have said then? See, this is the only question I have, you know. Because you never think. You are excited and then let go. Have you ever imagined in your life that a Hungarian should have gone to Hodac to take your rights away?

2nd voice: No.

4th voice: Have you seen in the press, have you heard over the radio a single Hungarian asking for Transylvania?

2nd voice: No. Not us.

4th voice: Then what do you want? When the entire world knows that they only ask for their own rights, that they should be treated like human beings. How shall we treat them? As some kind of slaves, as dogs? This is how far we Romanians have got. This is too much. Rather think of it that on the [December] 21st and the 22nd when the bullets were flying, you were not here. Did you have to come now? I am only asking you this, because in December you were then resting at home...

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I st voice: What did you get this money for?

2nd voice: I had a fine from the council, and they told me, if we don't come, then...

1st voice: What would they do then?

2nd voice: Put me in jail.

1 st voice: Put you in jail? And how much did they give?.

2nd voice: As much as the fine was. Three thousand lei. That much.

1 st voice: Who told you this.?

2nd voice: The mayor.

lst voice:

What is his name?

2nd voice: Milu Borzean.

1 st voice: Where did you come from?

2nd voice: From Ulisiu.

I also know about a witness (unfortunately his words were not recorded) who said that they had been called to Tirgu Mures because the Hungarians there were murdering Romanian children.

And further, the fact that the attacks against the Hungarian population of Tirgu Mures had been planned was also let out by Mihai Cofariu, an Ibanesti man transported to the town. In an interview on an Hungarian-language broadcast of Romanian Television, he said that at the previous Sunday service it had been announced that when church bells were sounded people should go to Tirgu Mures to make order, to teach a lesson to the Hungarians.

Nothing has to be added to this!

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Black Spring